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HCMA
Dec 26, 2010 3:51:45 GMT -5
Post by colemwilson on Dec 26, 2010 3:51:45 GMT -5
Hey this past year in the 2010 HCMA races i raced in the Open Beginner class. so obviously it was my first year racing, actually my first year on a bike. so when i joined the HCMA and signed up for the Open Beginner class i thought i would be racing with other people with the same skill level like mine or close to it. But that was not the case, see there was many times when i would talk to fellow racers on the starting line and ask them about how long and why they started racing, and to my suprise alot of the other racers in the class have been riding since 5 years of age or so. see i love racing and have a blast going to ALL the HCMA races and doin whatever i can to help out, but when i start the race and 5 other guys are riding like ryan dungey out there and look like they been on a track since they were 10 is really discouraging. My point is i would like to see in 2011 races people advancing more and track officials looking for this kind of stuff. Not only is it discouraging for other racers, but its also dangerous. What happens when one of these racers goto lap someone and jump right on top of them and have a serious injury?. if these guys are winning and going that fast for open beginner then they should be bumped up or somthing. it would be really nice to race against people of the same skill level. Other then that i have no issues with any of the rules or schedules of the HCMA rule book please take into consideration and Thanks for reading
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HCMA
Dec 26, 2010 16:01:54 GMT -5
Post by gman734 on Dec 26, 2010 16:01:54 GMT -5
I have one word for ya Cole! WORD!
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HCMA
Dec 26, 2010 19:35:59 GMT -5
Post by strosse on Dec 26, 2010 19:35:59 GMT -5
I agree Cole. I'm looking to start racing and i closely watched the beginner class at the Bozeman Roundup and it was fricken stacked with A riders... That doesn't make me want to get into racing at all. Of course the Roundup doesn't apply directly to the HCMA, but the point is there does seem to be some sandbagging going around and there should be something in place to prevent it. Maybe more beginner riders would show up
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HCMA
Dec 26, 2010 20:02:44 GMT -5
Post by reynolds437 on Dec 26, 2010 20:02:44 GMT -5
I agree Cole. I'm looking to start racing and i closely watched the beginner class at the Bozeman Roundup and it was fricken stacked with A riders... That doesn't make me want to get into racing at all. Of course the Roundup doesn't apply directly to the HCMA, but the point is there does seem to be some sandbagging going around and there should be something in place to prevent it. Maybe more beginner riders would show up That was majority out of state riders, having to ride a class down to not advance up, seems not fair, but it's there only option if they want the chance to race..
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HCMA
Dec 26, 2010 23:49:58 GMT -5
Post by 212masters22 on Dec 26, 2010 23:49:58 GMT -5
Yeah it was our first year to and we had a blast. My son Jake was on a 150r for the first time in the 80c class at eleven years old and half the class was 14-15 years old and putting up lap times just as good as the b riders so he can relate. As for me I raced once in springtime last year but just the sportsman with my wr 250, there was no sand baggers in that class, but I liked racing so much that I traded in my wr for a yz and raced the round up in Bozeman, and talk about a bunch of sand baggers, it was ridiculous, I entered the beginner class and actually got lapped twice by a kid who I was told raced some ama and couldn't enter other classes or the ama would take away his birthday or some s**t. Anyways if there's a way to make it fair that would be nice but until then I like racing so much I will deal with the sand baggers.
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HCMA
Dec 28, 2010 15:22:52 GMT -5
Post by ryno23 on Dec 28, 2010 15:22:52 GMT -5
I entered the beginner class and actually got lapped twice by a kid who I was told raced some ama and couldn't enter other classes or the ama would take away his birthday or some s**t. Anyways if there's a way to make it fair that would be nice but until then I like racing so much I will deal with the sand baggers. I know it seems sandbagging but there is reasoning behind it. There were a couple of families there from the SLC area in which they did enter the B class. Part of what they are working on with their kids is AMA ranking and yes, IF per chance a result was ever found where they were in any sort of "A" class they could lose there Am. status in any AMA sanctioned comp. I know it seems far fetched and that these SLC guys seem to take it too serious but in effect they are working hard for those kids to do just that. They weren't there to sandbag. Funny as it is they DO race B classes all over the Western states. We here in MT are just that much behind when it comes to our speed in classes. Yet, you hit the nail right on the head Masters with your last statement "I like racing so much I'll deal with it." That is what it's all about for our Roundup race. We try our best to put on an event that is fun and people enjoy marking as "must do" event in the year. We're glad you had a good time and we will do our best to provide an even better one in 2011. Cheers, Ryno
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HCMA
Dec 28, 2010 15:50:45 GMT -5
Post by moto 318 on Dec 28, 2010 15:50:45 GMT -5
Those two racers at question should have signed up for the B class instead of saying they're status with the AMA was in jeopardy and then go poach the beginner class,sure they looked fast compred to the beginner class they were racing...and when I think about it they weren't much faster, if at all than a couple of our top Jr riders, who by the way have been forced to advance to the int. class in less than one years time, somethin' definitely screwed up around here...just sayin'
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HCMA
Dec 28, 2010 18:23:51 GMT -5
Post by ryno23 on Dec 28, 2010 18:23:51 GMT -5
I think you're missing my point Kevin. Trust me these kids from Utah want to be in a class with some competition. They don't show up here to "poach" an easy class or we would have just booted them. To be honest they are great people. I talked to Zach and his dad for quite a bit. They just don't want to jepordize what their kids are trying to do through the AMA Am ranks. these boys go to other AMA races and are fighting for wins in that class. So they believe in a dream for them to work their ways into the Pros, run through the ranks to get some support, and go to Lorrettas, Ponca City, etc. to run for titles. Why would they jepordize it? They come to Bozeman because they love the track not to poach wins. It's that simple.
And yes, the class they run in other AMA races is exactly what they signed up for at our race! I know it seems stupid but it's true. MT has a ton of work to do to catch up with other states in speed vs. classes. I personnally think some of our boys (and girls) are advancing too fast. But our advancement system is all based on the numbers through a season. Kids are advancing premature because of the low numbers. There has to be a better way I feel. What the answer is I honestly don't know unfortunately.
Ryno
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HCMA
Dec 28, 2010 20:28:15 GMT -5
Post by gman734 on Dec 28, 2010 20:28:15 GMT -5
Absolutely, we are all there to have fun. That's why we do what we do and that is the bottom line. But isn't it that much sweeter and that much MORE fun when you try your hardest, give it your all and get a 1st or 2.nd place finish? Regardless of there intentions, how good of people they are or whatever, those riders still took that (1st. and 2.nd) away from other riders. Just saying... So what do? Tell them to pack up and drive 400 plus miles back? Its a tough situation with no easy answer.
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HCMA
Dec 28, 2010 21:12:19 GMT -5
Post by moto 318 on Dec 28, 2010 21:12:19 GMT -5
Nah,I would not have sent them packing, I just would have made them sign up in the b class instead of the beginner class. I must be missin' something here as it seems the issue was to not have them ride the a class to preserve their AMA status, I am not understanding why they dropped all the way down to the beginner class when there was a b class for them to sign up in.
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HCMA
Dec 28, 2010 21:23:14 GMT -5
Post by moto 318 on Dec 28, 2010 21:23:14 GMT -5
While we are on the subject, I think we need to change our A/PRO class' name if we have no plans to change the advancement system this year, if not we will have the same situation as previous years with riders who by our sanction rules refuse to advance and continue to ride in the class for no points and no score, messing with moto wins and points for the ones who are there to advance through.
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HCMA
Dec 28, 2010 21:30:01 GMT -5
Post by nine7eight on Dec 28, 2010 21:30:01 GMT -5
They should have a class called "Complainers" so people can sit and b*itch together while us other people just race and enjoy it for what it's worth.
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HCMA
Dec 29, 2010 14:35:34 GMT -5
Post by miniracers on Dec 29, 2010 14:35:34 GMT -5
If those boys would have signed up for our B class it would bump them to Intermediate in AMA. The classes go like this ... Our Pro=AMA A,Our Intermediate= AMA B, Our Junior= AMA C, Our Beginner= AMA D. N.M.A. has the same classification of classes as AMA. We need to change our class labels to get up to speed with the rest of the world.
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HCMA
Dec 29, 2010 15:52:54 GMT -5
Post by slowoldguy on Dec 29, 2010 15:52:54 GMT -5
In almost every other individual sport in this country there exists a system for handicapping participants. It is not difficult to develop a system for watching riders who are apparently riding outside their class. This issue is far from being a "complainers" topic and is more of an issue of both rider safety and of a fair system of scoring. I can promise you that if as an open beginner rider, I entered a pro class and was jeapordizing the safety of faster riders, the track officials would have me pulled off on my first lap.
I too will continue to race regardless of whether this failed system is repaired or not. However, as maybe a poor analogy, if Tiger Woods entered an amature golf tournament because he did not want his PGA ranking affected, what would people say about that? Probably more than one golf commentator might refer to it as "sandbagging".
A possible reason for our "Montana Boys" being somewhat behind the out of state competition, might be due to the fact that we are blanketed in snow for six months out of a year, and have no indoor practice facilities. Or maybe the average Montana racer's family does not have the financial resources to haul them to SLC for a one day race.
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HCMA
Dec 29, 2010 16:08:38 GMT -5
Post by slowoldguy on Dec 29, 2010 16:08:38 GMT -5
To be personally honest i dont care if i get 1st, 2nd etc etc. Im there to have fun and enjoy it with my family. and sure i understand what you guys are saying about the whole AMA and what not but what about the 15 other people who aren't? not everybody is trying to climb through the Ranks and make money. Everybody loves a good race with other people who are their skill level. Im just saying that if these guys are so good that they want to go a class down to help their AMA rank thats fine, just not in the Beganner Class. If they are A riders drop to B, if they are B riders drop to Junior etc. the beganner class is Supposed to be filled with new guys like myself learning how to pass and jump and what not but when these AMA guys go flying over your head hit the back of your motorcycle then thats when the Fun flys out the window and our fun loving sport becomes way more dangerous than it should be.
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