Yellow flag racing

[racermx]

First let me say that I have never seen the administrators of this site delete something out of the blue. If it got deleted there was a reason. With that said, I don't believe that if several people were arguing over a certain topic and they did it without the person attacks, I don't think it would get deleted either. Could be wrong, but I haven't seen or heard it. Anyways.

Truths. Hmmm. "...you're going to find that many of the truths we cling too, depend greatly on your own points of view." -- Obi-Wan Kenobi--

For the this arguement I'm going to use the fictional character Stewie from Family Guy. I tried it using the terms pro and pro's but it got confusing.

Pro's have to deal with lappers all the time. All the way from the HCMA to the AMA, its just part of the sport. So, let me answer the question of passing on a yellow with another question. Is it fair to the other pro's that are behind Pro Stewie? Stewie passed a lapper while a yellow flag was out. When the race resumes all the other pro's have now got to pass this lapper (who is now in the fast lines since the race was resumed), while Stewie got to pass him in the easiest and most convienent of conditions without having to try and find a way around him like the other pro's now have to do. Trying to get around this lapped rider is only going to slow them down. Did it slow Stewie down? Nope. The only way this would have been fair was if the other pro's that were behind Stewie also got to pass the lapper while it was still yellow. Get it? But this is only my opinion and my "own point of view."

Lets keep it cool and clean and hopefully this thread wont get deleted. We're just talking

[212masters22]

This is one of those subjects that has so many grey areas you could only solve it with instant replay like the NFL does. Sometimes a rider goes down rite in front of you and its all you can do to not go down yourself. Other times it gives you a warning that the track is cluttered and you need to slow down to prevent running into a downed rider and causing even more damage, possibly to yourself. I didn't see what happened is this particular situation, but I always slow down when I see a flag until I can address the situation. The lapped rider issue is just part of motocross, I've seen lapped riders help out and I've seen them hurt. I saw a slower rider take out two 30A riders this weekend, that was a bummer, I will definitely show up to the meeting this year and vote to get the 30 beginners out of the 30B and 30A class. I think we have passed the 80C class for gnarly starts and number of riders in a class. No matter who the officials are there gonna piss someone off, thats one of those positions you need thick skin. As far as the pros go, if they really loved the sport they would be out there racing like the rest of us no matter what the purse is. But I do like to watch them, they make the day more fun, and lately I'm wondering who would win if Delaware lined up at the starting gate with them.

[a447]

If riders are getting lapped in the int. or pro class they should have enough experience to no to get out of the fast lane for the racers behind them. As far as pros racing to race for the love of the sport, thats true, but it cost pros more $$$ to race! Pros bikes take a beating! Theyre on the track longer and require maint. To even race at HCMA level it cost to have a bike that can be competitive. Thats why I feel a purse is important. After all we all had to of loved this sport to progress to the "A" class. Delaware didnt quit riding, he still hauls the mail!

[honda]

I have seen the yellow flag help people or hurt them in there racing position. If you get to the yellow flag and slow down like most everyone does and then the yellow flag goes away just as you get by, then everyone else behind you did not have to slow down and got a little catch up, but that is racing.

I have not been to an HCMA race for a few years now mostly for the reasons that have been coming up for the past few years. But when I did race the HCMA I do not recall ever seeing a lapper flag. Spokane, Horn Rapids and the Colorado series that we have been racing use the lapper flag, some obey it and some others do not, but once again that is racing. They also do not group slower riders with the faster riders, they might group a few classes together but most are the same speed. Pros and A's always race within their class.

[smacktalk]

If someone passes or races under a yellow flag there can be a number of variables especially in muddy conditions. Anyone should have the right to question or object to a call against them or there rider!! A reasonable explanation, proof, consultation with the other riders, multiple officials or flagger consulting should be done to hanldle the objection reasonably and fair. This was the PRO class (6 or so riders) plus bout (10) intermediates not a 30 screamin 14 year old 85 riders. meaning I think they know the rules and want to be safe. All officials should be consistent, and diplomatic. Not hot headed, or abrassive dictators with a in your face attitude. They should exhibit enough self control so when a pissed racer or frustrated friend or parent approaches and expresses concerns you dont freak out on them. All racers who get a yellow flag should receive the same punishment. If you all dont believe that - I hope you get to experience what my son and myself did after spending $50 to overnight $200 of parts, $160 in diesel fuel, and $105 in PRo entry fees, late nights in the shop and barely making it there til about midnight to race a race with more than 3 pros and then be told to hit the road for a possible yellow flag issue.
Thus my rant, you show me one HCMA racer that has been disqualified sent packing and kicked out for the season over it!!!! This was a infraction that was questioned and not handled properly, democratically or fairly! With that said, I think we could have an official who is not a "parent" of a mini rider. I feel most parents pursue these positions so we the members can help pay there way to the races and take the write offs, anyone should be able to see that!!!!!! I think the officials got a pay raise for gas and the Pro riders got a cut. ( seems like the proof is right there!) They figure they have to pack up the kids and the camper and go everyweekend so they might as well make some gas money, i doubt they all do it for the love of the sport or because they are the right person for the position. They are supposed to work for us!, it is clear to me they dont because they dont represent all member evenly or fair. there is no consistentcy!!!!!!!!!!! i think they better kick every rider who commits a yellow flag offence out for the season!! now that would be consistent , but we all know that wont happen! like I said not democratic and just like High School sport politics. Furthermore, there should be a time limit how long someone can be an official or on the board. Take a look how long the current pres has been on board, no wonder the hcma is on the downhill slide. Hell have a intermediate 30 plus racer or maybe one of our old pros I am sure we can do better than what we got. Or at least a board member from different areas of that state like at least one from each major town. Accordingly, show me a racer who reallly gets that excited to pack up and go to a HCMA race these days? Racing all the HCMA events used to fun and we would all look forward to the next year, and excited to pack up- go and even see sum pretty good racing. Those days are appear to be done for me, a person who has been a member and hcma racer for the past 20 years! Ahhh. the good ol days. LOL

[smacktalk]

ps. I would love to see pro's like delaware back on the line along with about another 6 fast guys we dont c anymore, my kid used to say "I want to be fast like him" when he was younger. What montana pros will your kids have to want to go "as fast as" or "faster". obviously - 1 less

[motomomma]

I witnessed a portion of this "incident" and was horrified at the disrespectful actions of this young man. Nobody would have had to tell my son to pack up and get out, I would have kicked his @ss and packed us up without being told by anyone. This riders parents should be embarrassed and ashamed of him, although I have been told that his father acts over the top also. My son is not a pro rider (we pay our fees, gas, bike repairs, ect), so we are not given any money at the end of the day. I question why you are pitching such a fit, you stated in your post........... "Accordingly, show me a racer who reallly gets that excited to pack up and go to a HCMA race these days? Racing all the HCMA events used to fun and we would all look forward to the next year, and excited to pack up- go and even see sum pretty good racing.......our family looks forward to every race weekend and we miss our friends and the sport at the end of the year. Rather than criticize the officials and point fingers, spend your energy on some anger management classes for you and your son! Shame on mom and dad for allowing this young man to disrespect those placed in a position of authority, let alone an adult in general.

[smacktalk]

For the record: I joel vessie was the one who got him booted, by objecting the call, he was still finishing the moto when the original conflict went down. He was reacting to what had already been done and speaking his mind after being DQ-d and told to leave which in-turn elevated to Dq-d for the year. Not saying that his reaction was warranted, but after my dealings with the officials, I cant say as I blame him. Sometimes you get pissed off when you get pissed on.! The reason I am making a rant: It was wrong to DQ him for me objecting to a call and a particular officials reaction to that. Off to anger management, I will save a seat for this official...... oh what I am saying, were going racing this weekend. he can still have his seat.

[racermx]

ITs hard to believe that an official banned a rider for protesting a rule. I think it was the way it was protested that got him and the other party banned. I do agree however that perhaps only one person should have gotten banned and not both parties...but I wasnt a direct witness to what went down, so really I'm only speculating on what I was told. In other words, I could be wrong...I don't have all the details or all the answers. We have this kind of problem before at other races/tracks. And the solution at the time was to ban the parents but let the kid/kids ride if they so choose to. Like I said, Im not sure exactly what went down and if banning just the one person was an option. I just hope we all can learn from this and ensure that something like this doesnt happen again. I too miss seeing all the pro's. When you have a pro's running into 23 B riders by the end of the second lap, there's something wrong (like what happened in the +30A and +30B). When we saw 23 +30B riders signed up, I think they should have ran them seperately. I couldnt imagine the frustration of the few pro's we have having to deal with that. But then again, its only my opinion, my point of view.

[honda]

I was not there and do not know all the facts, but what I can say is both parties have a right to speak there mind and if Joey thought he was getting the raw end of the deal he should stand up for what he felt was right and not just take it. The elected officials are there for a reason and that is to control the race, spectators, make sure the rules are being followed and that things are safe. They are the ones that should have calmed down the situation instead of adding to it, maybe walk away and let things cool down instead of adding fuel to the fire.

[nohairbigair]

I to think joey or anybody should be allowed to voice his opinion, weather their temper got the best of him or not. My issue with this is how he got penalized, somebody told his dad that he passed on the yellow and the officials docked him a lap before he was even off the track? The other issue I have is why could he not get his money for the fees paid for motos he was no longer allowed to race in. Motomomma, states she would kick his @ss and pack up and leave without being told....hmmm without all the details, due to the fact you only witnessed a portion of the "incident" so what you are saying you would kick @ss and pack-up without all the facts..... Wow!!!! I thought the HCMA was tough.

[vessie200]

I dont really care anymore because the hcma is the least of my concerns. as far as my incident goes, i politely approached my fellow hot head with a few easy questions. what did i do wrong? i apparently was racing under a yellow.. i felt differently. i was caught behind lapper #51 i believe. waited behind the slower rider til after the crash and flag then continued to race. didnt think anything of it because it was totally legal... why the DQ. apperently it had to do with my dad. i wasnt there for this so idk what happened.. before i could finish my question i had the vp yelling at me. i admit i didnt look at my toes. he moved a little closer about two inches in front of my nose. screamin and hollering in my face. i dont care what kind of "authority" he has. or how much older he is. i should of laid the bastard on his ass

[357mag]

need i say more.... HCMA.... ya you should of vessie, put him in his place. HCMA is like a bunch of rent a cops. thats why we don't race HCMA any more and many OTHERS.

[allout]

"I should have laid the bastard on his ass". I think we all see the problem right there. I believe the fact that you are out is your lack of respect for authority. Sounds like it may run in the family. It is clearly stated in the rule book that there will be no abuse of officials. I have known the vice president for many years, and I know that he is fair. It takes an awful lot to get him angry, and from the sound of it, he had enough abuse from both father and son. And why anyone thinks that you should have gotten a refund for the remaining races that you were not allowed to race needs to think again. Your attitude and that of your father is the reason you are out. Your family has been racing long enough, you know the rules. Your "pro" status does not give you the right to act the way you did. We want the younger riders to look up to the pros, not see them as rude and abusive. Not sure anyone will miss you.

[smacktalk]

Now thats funny, officials have the right to yell in spit in the members face! show me that in the "rule book" First me then the kid. If we didnt have some respect for the helena club, I would of blasted him. This is not the first time this official has done this, he had an award winning performance with others the week before in Nirada. So tell me if he is such "a great fair official" his track record is not showing it. I might add this is the first time in 20years of hcma I had to object or question an official.