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Post by ryno23 on Dec 4, 2010 20:07:41 GMT -5
I don't know of other clubs and what they have in mind for changes but the only rule change Bozeman is offering for discussion is the Vet classes by changing it to a 30A/B class like every other age (older) class in the HCMA. By this we mean there is a 25 A/B, 40A/B, 50A/B but still Vet, Vet Int, and Vet Pro. Anybody else out there have opinion on this?
Ryno
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Post by cswhitey on Dec 4, 2010 20:16:10 GMT -5
As of today - I have received the sanction forms and a few suggested rule changes from 3 locations. Either this is going to be a short season or some of the areas are just slow. The suggestions will be posted after we hear from the other locations. I asked for the sanctions and suggestions by Dec. 1. Chris
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Post by moto 318 on Dec 5, 2010 13:35:02 GMT -5
How would you split the classes up,with regaurd to last years competitors...Take like the top ten finishers in last years int. class and make them advance to the pro class? I sure would hate to see new vet riders have to go and compete against some sandbaggin' lifer in the intermediate class only to get lapped every moto and getting discouraged and quit racing.I do like the thought of consolidating the class though.
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allout
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by allout on Dec 5, 2010 14:42:18 GMT -5
What about the riders who want to race for no points, and no placing. They either dont want to move up because of their out of state racing qualifications, or is it they dont want to move up to a class they know they are not qualified to be in, but are forced to ride in. Their are alot of int. riders who do not belong in the pro class, but are forced up because of the structuring.
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Post by gman734 on Dec 5, 2010 17:26:14 GMT -5
What about the riders who want to race for no points, and no placing. They either dont want to move up because of their out of state racing qualifications, or is it they dont want to move up to a class they know they are not qualified to be in, but are forced to ride in. Their are alot of int. riders who do not belong in the pro class, but are forced up because of the structuring. I really like this idea. Just race to race....to points no placing. Im sure there must have a negative to this idea...but i cant think of one right now. Also...a lot of the time riders just wanna get some track time and prepare for their other class. Uno? I like it the idea, but i think im missing something.
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Post by gman734 on Dec 5, 2010 17:35:39 GMT -5
I don't know of other clubs and what they have in mind for changes but the only rule change Bozeman is offering for discussion is the Vet classes by changing it to a 30A/B class like every other age (older) class in the HCMA. By this we mean there is a 25 A/B, 40A/B, 50A/B but still Vet, Vet Int, and Vet Pro. Anybody else out there have opinion on this? Ryno In the old days (like Ive been around that long), there were too many Vet and Vet Int. riders to fit into one class. There use to a full gate in both classes (Vet, Vet int). But with numbers down it may be time to do an A/B. I wish it wasnt, but it may be time. When we only have an average of 4-6 Vet riders at gate...is it worth it? I dont know...just tossing my two cents in.
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Post by moto 318 on Dec 5, 2010 17:53:23 GMT -5
Racing for no points no score,in a class that the rider is too fast for, has got to be the lamest excuse to sand bag I have ever heard of...If you are gonna ride no points no score do it in the class that is faster not slower,challenge yourself instead of stoking yourself!
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allout
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by allout on Dec 5, 2010 19:05:31 GMT -5
I do not agree with riders who come in and want to ride for no points/no placing. I do not feel they should be allowed to ride with the ones who are racing for points. Either you ride with the class and move up when you point out, or dont ride that class.
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Post by gman734 on Dec 5, 2010 22:59:37 GMT -5
Hmm...Do you really think people would sandbag in a race that they get no trophy, money or no points in? What is their insentive? To smoke everyone in the class for nothing? It really doesnt mean anything if they get first. You put Chad Reed in the beginner class and he smokes everyone, but if there are no points, trophy or money...who cares? The real race is between the riders who signed up in that class are riding for the win...not the sandbagger Chad Reed. I may missunderstanding something, I guess i just dont see people sandbagging for no reason...but maybe I dont understanding the thoughts of sandbaggers. Like I said before, i may be missing something negative.
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Post by gman734 on Dec 5, 2010 23:20:11 GMT -5
"What about the riders who want to race for no points, and no placing. They either dont want to move up because of their out of state racing qualifications, or is it they dont want to move up to a class they know they are not qualified to be in, but are forced to ride in." I do not agree with riders who come in and want to ride for no points/no placing. I do not feel they should be allowed to ride with the ones who are racing for points. Either you ride with the class and move up when you point out, or dont ride that class. Am I missing something? Honestly i could care less if a sandbagger came in raced in my class and raced for no points, money or trophy. Makes no difference to me. It only bugs me when when they take points and motos wins away from other riders. Would I care care if RC road my class and got a 1st place that really isnt a 1st place and makes no difference to anyone? Nope. I would simply take his gate fee and entry fee and say thank you for stopping by RC! Its more money to the tracks. But I can certainly understand peoples feeling about not wanting something like this to happen. Just from my perspective...it dont seem that bad
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Post by moto 318 on Dec 6, 2010 8:53:08 GMT -5
Thats the problem though G,those people who have been riding down to preserve their out of state status, have been interfering with all the other riders' finishes ,taking moto wins etc...,This here HCMA thing is for the riders of the HCMA not the 3 or 4 individuals who show up every now and then and expect us to bow down to them and put our own agendas on the back burner. I thought it was totally whacked to see those two kids from Utah race the beginner class at the Round up this last fall,those kids were as fast as any of our intermediates, some body needs to put their foot down and say enough is enough. John you have been around racing long enough and you have a real good grip on reality,but what about the ones who are still maturing and this stuff really does matter to them, who are we to say grow up and deal with it,their money paid to race is just as good and important as anyone else's.
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Post by gman734 on Dec 6, 2010 11:27:25 GMT -5
Thats the problem though G,those people who have been riding down to preserve their out of state status, have been interfering with all the other riders' finishes ,taking moto wins etc..., I guess thats what im saying. If they raced for no points no any thing, then they wouldnt get the moto win either. The round up race was different. Those kids your got second because those others sandbagged really deserved 1st in my oppinion. Yeah i saw that too... i didnt like it either. So what you are saying is, even if these the sandbaggers (that got 1st. ) are not getting a moto win and getting no points... it still bugs the rider that got second (which is actually 1st)? I can understand that. Did someone put moving the meeting to the same day as the Banquet? Heard this a couple times, good idea i think.
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Post by moto 318 on Dec 6, 2010 12:39:48 GMT -5
There is a solution to all this, we need to change our class names ie; change pro to expert,and intermediate to novice. Then we need to change our advancement system to resemble other sanctioning bodies' advancement systems. These other systems let the rider mature along a more realistic time line, and make it okay to win. Once the sanctioning bodies' advancement system causes the rider to hold back and not race to their heart's desire, I feel it has then failed. The key to this type of advancement system succeeding is having a person or persons who annually get together and have an advancement meeting, with the riders riding in their designated class until the advancement person/persons redesignate them, or if the individual chooses to advance early. this system also deals well with out of staters and temp riders, because if they try to sand bag they only hurt themselves because they are subject to advancement if they are considerably faster than the field. I have seen this sytem or some form close, work very well racing other states and it has become somewhat standard, making things easier for all who are concerned. Another great example of our advancement system being out of whack is the computerized scoring system for our transponder system has no format for our advancement system, in fact when Stacey contacted the tech support people they were no help as they said they had no solution to the issue.I am certain that I am not the only one who had trouble with trying to figure out standings of individual riders when I looked at the standings book or on the web site,if you didn't follow the season race for race you wouldn't know.
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sdwest
Junior Member
Posts: 84
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Post by sdwest on Dec 6, 2010 22:49:38 GMT -5
did the advancement system get changed to push riders thru because of having to run qualifiers?
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Post by moto 318 on Dec 7, 2010 8:50:51 GMT -5
The system has been changed at the last two state meetings,two years ago we lowered the amount of moto wins and points needed to advance for fear of having to run qualifiers again,that was no where near the case so we switched it back. We have been trying to fix a system that in my opinion needs to be totally redone.Let the riders grow for a season in a class, it is a little concerning we expect riders to advance so quickly.Maybe by slowing the advancement process fewer riders will be inclined to fade out and quit.
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